More fires at Hudson

[_liss_]

Suspicious fires gut former psych buildings





Firefighters put out a smoldering fire at the former Hudson River Psychiatric Center in the Town of Poughkeepsie, only to be called back hours later for a separate blaze that burned overnight Friday and gutted a building, authorities said.
The two fires — occurring several hours apart in different abandoned buildings — appear to be suspicious and are under investigation, Town of Poughkeepsie police said.
Public curiosity regarding the mental health institution's boarded-up, historic red-brick buildings has created trespassing problems, police said.
Friday's overnight fire on the site caused "severe damage" to a three-story former staff house, Fairview District Fire Chief Tory Gallante said.
"The building is a total loss," he added.
Fairview was dispatched at about 11 p.m. Friday and battled flames for about three hours, closing Route 9 for a portion of the time to secure additional water sources, the chief said.
Due to fire hot spots flaring up, the firefighters stayed at the scene until about noon Saturday.
An earlier Friday fire at the old psychiatric center damaged several rooms in Ryon Hall, Gallante said. Fairview responded to the scene at about 1:30 p.m. Friday — about 9ÿ hours prior to responding to the larger structure fire.
Gallante said the Ryon Hall fire probably had been set Thursday and burned throughout the night into the morning. When firefighters arrived, it was smoldering, he said.
In May 2007, the former center's main building burned for days.
The cause of the 2007 fire was determined to be a lightning strike.
The Mid-Hudson Alcoholism Receiving Center was located in Ryon Hall in the 1990s, according to Poughkeepsie Journal archive.
In 2005, New York state sold much of the institution's former campus to developers for $2.75 million. The hospital operated at the site from 1871 to 2001.
The psychiatric center relocated to a building off Route 9G.
The former psychiatric center site is owned by Hudson Heritage CPCR Ventures. A redevelopment project is in the review stages. It is projected to cost $250 million and bring commercial and retail uses on the southern end of the site in addition to residential housing north of the commercial uses.
The Dutchess County Fire Investigation Division is assisting Poughkeepsie police in the investigation of the later fire, Gallante said.
Fairview was assisted by fire districts from Arlington, Roosevelt and the City of Poughkeepsie in addition to Transcare Ambulance, and the Town of Poughkeepsie and Hyde Park police departments.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100425/NEWS05/4250355/Suspicious-fires-gut-former-psych-buildings

[Aero]

I was by there today, the staff house is the one you can see from Route 9, closest to the road. Pretty much a gutted shell now. Couldn't see any damage to Ryons Hall from the outside, and we weren't about to go messing around inside right now.

[_liss_]

I want to post this link so bad on UER and basically say that is what happens to a place when you post by name, no matter how many people already knew about it, it has been a free for all lately. Its so sad and disappointing to see this is where once one of the most beautiful and preserved of most locations has ended up.

[Navi]

I think all but abandoning what was intended to be a successful preservation and redevelopment project might be what happened to it...

I mean, you might want to tell Google to stop labeling it on their maps, too. ;)

[_liss_]

Its not really a matter of Google labeling it on their maps which is leading to these places being vandalized. Its people on the internet going LOOK I EXPLORED HUDSON RIVER STATE HOSPITAL TODAY AND IT WAS SO EASY AND LOOK AT ALL MY PICS!!!

I have watched the place slowly decline over the past 5 years due to the internet. And yes I blame the internet because local kids and the college students didn't get far because security was good. They started to give up and after the fire they let the place slip through the cracks. I know of many so called explorers who partook in the destruction of Hudson. For a place that sat since the 1970's, abandoned, mostly untouched, to be destroyed so much in a matter of a few years, yeah I think fingers should definitely be pointed in some direction.

[Mad Dawg]

Its not really a matter of Google labeling it on their maps which is leading to these places being vandalized. Its people on the internet going LOOK I EXPLORED HUDSON RIVER STATE HOSPITAL TODAY AND IT WAS SO EASY AND LOOK AT ALL MY PICS!!!

Agreed 110%.

[8ReDRuM]

I want to post this link so bad on UER and basically say that is what happens to a place when you post by name, no matter how many people already knew about it.

Do It!!!!

[_liss_]

I posted it in that thread titled "Hudson River State Hospital (lotsa pics)".
The kid now sees the error of his ways.

[Navi]

If it weren't people on UER, it'd be people on Flickr, Myspace, Facebook, Photobucket, here, Opacity, etc etc...and local kids bragging to their friends off the internet. And yes, even Google. I do a good portion of research with the Panoramio photos on Google Earth alone. :D

I just think it's too easy to blame accessibility of information for why abandoned buildings get destroyed. I'm not trying to say that's not part of it, but the information is just always going to be out there. I find it silly to railroad people for something you perceive as their fault completely after the fact, but that's just me.

I blame destruction on the fact that they were abandoned in the first place, and security not doing their job. I don't exactly find myself daring to return to a place I got a stern warning at, never mind fines or arrest. I've been to Hudson before the 2007 fire too and walked around outside for hours without so much as a "hey you kids."

[8ReDRuM]

I posted it in that thread titled "Hudson River State Hospital (lotsa pics)".
The kid now sees the error of his ways.

Seen it.

Here is a response from Impfac-

(Jesus, that place is so freaking peaceful and beautiful, why would you want to burn it down?

My thinking was, since it's a 'famous' place it would be ok to use the name, whereas places people mostly wouldn't know I wouldn't name.

But reading what you guys posted now I get why not to post names regardless.)

[Aero]

I blame destruction on the fact that they were abandoned in the first place, and security not doing their job.

Thats not how it works though, I used to think like that, but there's way to many examples that prove that wrong.

I think the best example is Neponsit. It closed in 1998, and was completely untouched and unvandalized until 2007...shortly after it was posted on the internet for the first time, then within 6 months it looked like Byberry inside. And there are dozens of examples like that. Even KPPC, stayed relatively untouched for a long time until Long Island Oddities came around and publicized it on the internet.

And you can't blame it on security not doing their job either...their are plenty of places that have little or no security and are untouched because they aren't on the internet. I bet if those got posted with their real names, they'd be trashed in a month.

[Navi]

Well, I don't know about security. I have to admit my experience with moderate to heavy security is limited, but it's been enough of a long term...study that I think it's plainly obvious when they're not doing their jobs properly. Unless their job is to guard sandwiches (not that I can blame them, depending on the sandwich).

And I'm not even really trying to say anything is right or wrong, I'm guessing most people are going to have different experiences depending on where they explore, where they live, etc. It just irks me when explorers jump on each other and blame people for stuff that obviously isn't their individual fault, just because they used a name. I don't know about this person on UER, but I hate not having tons of exploring friends and then being "yelled" at for saying or doing the wrong thing when I finally decide to post on a forum or share my photography.

Besides, I am one opinionated bitch. I mean, lady.

[Jake]

Well, I don't know about security. I have to admit my experience with moderate to heavy security is limited, but it's been enough of a long term...study that I think it's plainly obvious when they're not doing their jobs properly. Unless their job is to guard sandwiches (not that I can blame them, depending on the sandwich).

And I'm not even really trying to say anything is right or wrong, I'm guessing most people are going to have different experiences depending on where they explore, where they live, etc. It just irks me when explorers jump on each other and blame people for stuff that obviously isn't their individual fault, just because they used a name. I don't know about this person on UER, but I hate not having tons of exploring friends and then being "yelled" at for saying or doing the wrong thing when I finally decide to post on a forum or share my photography.

Besides, I am one opinionated bitch. I mean, lady.

except that your just plain wrong.

fingers can and should get pointed and in this case it is solely because of people getting sloppy with the name. it got posted as riverside for years and it was safe and relatively unharmed.

rays right, there are tons and tons of places that are stupid easy, that should they get posted, would be trashed very quickly.

navi you have too much faith in people. when people have easy access to info it leads to more people visiting a location which in turn leads to it getting destroyed. its not rocket science.

get your head out of your ass.

[DashingFlamingos]

Boo. Someone's killing teh kirks.

[Macgyver]

I blame the internet and lack of security.

[Becks]

Thats not how it works though, I used to think like that, but there's way to many examples that prove that wrong.

I think the best example is Neponsit. It closed in 1998, and was completely untouched and unvandalized until 2007...shortly after it was posted on the internet for the first time, then within 6 months it looked like Byberry inside. And there are dozens of examples like that. Even KPPC, stayed relatively untouched for a long time until Long Island Oddities came around and publicized it on the internet.

And you can't blame it on security not doing their job either...their are plenty of places that have little or no security and are untouched because they aren't on the internet. I bet if those got posted with their real names, they'd be trashed in a month.


I think Ray is dead on with this. I blame explorers for everything. we ruin what we care about most because we post everything on the internet. I think enough cases have come about where it's been proven that exploring and the internet do not mix. If you care about the buildings and preserving them it's not in the best interest to post about it on an exploring forum. At this point I honestly don't expect anything else to happen. I was all about forums for a while and then realized what comes out of forums... attention from police... vandalism... people having internet fights with other internet people that turns into vandalism... rare cases of people that are not explorers causing vandalism due to exploring forums... dick wagging contests that lead to more unwanted attention because everyone knows you get 10+ leet explorer interweb points for posting pictures of you and friend inside some location that no one has ever done before (except for my boyfriend... and phantom.... lol jk ). the only good that comes out of exploring forums is friendships I suppose...

also I've noticed that 90% of explores that bitch about vandalism.. vandalize places themselves... I.E pennhurst, rockland, HUDSON, mmhc... the list goes on and on and on and on.


security does not matter and i don't feel it has anything to do with security doing their jobs. any explorer that has ever been to any location with security should know how simple it is to avoid security at most locations ... unless it's one of those rare occasions when it comes to wrong place wrong time..


I think i just hold grudges and i hate anything that puts exploring and the internet together. thats just me.

[Mad Dawg]

The biggest problem in the history of UE was the cross between exploring and the internet. I can't talk cause i wasn't a part of UE when that happened. But i think that that was when the death knell was sounded.

Look at exploring in the past few years. I can remember when Pennhurst was virtually undamaged. Graffiti was confined to the tunnels and you could walk up there and not see security or a cop all day. Then in late '07 every yokel in the southeast PA area and beyond found out and went there in fucking force. No one took the care to keep it quiet. Next thing you know, it's boarded, welded and impossible. Thank god IMO. If it hadn't been boarded and secured every last thing would've been destroyed. I'm most grateful that Haverford State was demolished when it was, so that it didn't suffer from the same shit that a lot of these places have.

Everything, and i mean everything is one big piss contest these days. Everyone's gotta be the first to do a new place and whore it out. Who the fuck cares? Go have fun and languish in the knowledge that you are one of the few to see what you're seeing.

[Aero]

Interesting article -
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100503/NEWS05/5030329/Suspicious-fires-at-psychiatric-hospital-s-old-campus-bring-security-push

Suspicious fires at psychiatric hospital's old campus bring security push

Michael Valkys • Poughkeepsie Journal • May 3, 2010

Fairview Fire District personnel had a busy few days last month as they responded to two separate fires at the Hudson River Psychiatric Center's sprawling former main campus off Route 9 in the Town of Poughkeepsie.
Firefighters battled a blaze at Ryon Hall, a former patient residence, during the afternoon of April 23. They were back about nine hours later to fight a bigger fire — one that destroyed a three-story former staff house.
Authorities said both fires have been labeled suspicious and appear to have been deliberately set. The blazes came nearly three years after a massive fire destroyed a portion of the center's historic former main building, which dates to the 19th century. The cause of that blaze was determined to be a lightning strike.
While authorities can't do much about the weather, they are trying to prevent people from illegally entering the hospital's former campus.
Officials said keeping people off the closed site as it awaits redevelopment can be difficult — and presents numerous challenges. The 156-acre site is vulnerable to trespassers, vagrants, vandals and thieves — and the curious.
Vehicles are not allowed on the site, but authorities concede there are many spots where people can walk in undetected.
"Most people who get onto the property walk in," town police Capt. Ron Spero said. "I think the site is a curiosity."
Spero said property owner CPC Resources has an on-site employee who is responsible for security. In addition, he said, CPC hires off-duty town police officers to patrol and help secure the site during overnight hours.
Thomas McGrath, a senior vice president with CPC, said the on-site employee spends much of his day repairing broken locks and trying to keep the site secure.
"We are constantly trying to resecure every building," McGrath said.
He said off-duty police officers patrol the campus at night on a regular basis, but declined to give specifics, citing the need to keep such information from potential trespassers.
Even with the police presence, McGrath admitted it's difficult to secure the massive site and its dozens of buildings.

Old psychiatric centers such as Hudson River often attract a mixed bag of people who try to sneak on the sites for various reasons.There are homeless people looking for a place to stay. That can lead to problems, if they start fires to stay warm.
The vacant buildings also attract thieves. Officials said many of the old centers are loaded with copper pipes and wiring — which thieves can steal and sell to scrap yards.
Then there are curiosity seekers who sneak on such properties to check out rumors of ghosts and hauntings.
Others come to take photos of the abandoned buildings.
A Web search revealed posts by photographers who appear to have entered Hudson River's old buildings to snap eerie photos of the dilapidated center.
One website shows a photo dated November 2008 of three people carrying backpacks and what appears to be camera equipment during a daytime visit to the deserted center. Another shows a man posing, holding a beer can, in front of a fence in what appears to be one of the center's long-neglected corridors.
Fairview fire officials said they have not had to respond to many calls at the center since it closed nine years ago, but the site is filled with potential fire risks.
The property has dozens of vacant buildings — many deteriorating and susceptible to fire.
Fairview Fire Chief Tory Gallante said the condition of the buildings is so poor that firefighters are instructed to stay out of them when they respond to calls there.
"They have been vacant for some time now with no power and no heat," Gallante said of campus buildings. He said firefighters are ordered to combat the blazes from outside the structures.
"We don't want them getting hurt," Gallante said.
He said the property is also susceptible to brush fires.
"There's a lot of overgrown brush and vegetation," Gallante said.
Meanwhile, redevelopment plans for the campus are pending before town officials. CPC Resources hopes to build 750 housing units and create 350,000 square feet of commercial and office space. Officials have said the project could cost $250 million and take at least eight years.
The state in 2005 sold much of the hospital's former campus to developers for $2.75 million. The hospital operated at the Route 9 site for more than a century before the main building closed in 2001.
The psychiatric center remains open off Route 9G on land that was not included in the sale.
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[Tom]

Interesting article -
Another shows a man posing, holding a beer can, in front of a fence in what appears to be one of the center's long-neglected corridors.


Lol, I thought of Radical Ed.

My view: Abandoned sites have been vandalized and looted forever. Think of the various ancient archaeological sites, many were looted and vandalized over the course of centuries. It's just human nature. There's no law in an abandoned space, regardless of how much some of us disapprove.